Creative Rules Interpretation

Shamrock 3x

Veteran
I recently received a communique from a friend, suggesting I post something on RaceNY.  All the talk about Chad Knaus' recent "troubles" got me thinking that with all the knowledge in this here forum, RaceNYers must have some pretty interesting tales to tell. So boys (and girls) have at it and give up your stories, either verified or rumored, of folks who stretched the rules and got away (or not) with it.  Here's a couple to start:

1) I was talking with Lee Osborne a few years ago and he told me how back in the 60s cars were sometimes checked for min. weight before the race, but not after.  He was at Lancaster one time and was a little under the minimum.  So to make weight, they filled the LR tire with water.  Then while sitting on the grid, waiting to go out, he had Mike Loescher, who was crewing for Oz at the time, loosen the valve stem to slowly let the air out of the LR.  Once the tire was flat & officials were notified, they let Mike & crew remove the flat & replace it before the race with one that was full of air....but NOT water.  He didn't remember how he did in the race, but said the funniest thing was watching lil' Mike trying to roll the tire back to the pits with all that water sloshing around inside.

2) This one is not verified, so is just a story I heard from someone (really don't remember who) somewhere.  If Bob Meuller is reading, perhaps he can confirm or deny.  OK, so in the late 60s or early 70s, Roger Treichler was winning a LOT of races at Spencer with that good looking coach of his.  I believe there was a max. CI rule, but I don't know what the max. was. Anyway, everyone was certain that Roger was cheating with a big motor. And for several weeks in a row, the tech. officials would make them pull the #1 plug after the race and check to see if they were over the limit.....but they never were.  Finally somebody got smart and decided to check some of his other cylinders.  The story goes that they found out that # 1 was the ONLY legal one and the other 7 were way over the limit.  Busted!  (I think this is a great story and hope someone can lend credence to it).

OK....let the lies fly!
 

Gregonet31

Veteran
I heard of a story where a racer was told he had to have an exhaust pipe and muffler in his car.

So he threw a pipe and muffler down to the floorboards on the passenger side of the cock pit lol

The tech guys said "Thats not what we meant". He came back with "Well thats what the rule book says."

The next week the rulebook was amended to specific detail on how they wanted the pipe/muffler attached lol

 

garyt

Veteran
Shamrock, I don't know about your story but I do know that a Late Model at Spencer Speedway was caught with an engine like that (only one legal cylinder).
 

Paul

Rookie
Shamrock,

I heard the same story regarding Roger Treichler from the late Gil Cramer many years ago.

Gil was also the guy that made the rules regarding the now Nationwide series rules and airflow a little more specific.  Lee Roy Yarbrough drove Gil's Studebaker Hawk to victory in the 1961 (or '62, maybe even '63) Daytona Permatex 300 for Modifieds.  At the time, spoilers were not allowed.  But the speeds were so high that the back wheels got pretty light at the end of the straights.  One guy on the crew was an engineer at the old Bell plant in Buffalo, and said that the problem was that the cars were acting like an airplane wing; they were getting lift at speed, based on the pressure differential between the air going over the car verses the air going under the car.  So Gil went to a local hardware store and got a length of heat duct and some screen.  He cut a rectangular hole in the bottom of the trunk and the area just ahead of the trunk so the air had a path to clear the pressure differential.  NASCAR didn't like it, but if the rule book doesn't say you can't then you can.  The next year the rule book did say you can't.
 
garyt said:
Shamrock, I don't know about your story but I do know that a Late Model at Spencer Speedway was caught with an engine like that (only one legal cylinder).


I would think you would have to have at least 2 legal cylinders. The other piston on the same crank journal theoretically would have to have the same stroke and weight....
 
dirttrackrocker said:
garyt said:
Shamrock, I don't know about your story but I do know that a Late Model at Spencer Speedway was caught with an engine like that (only one legal cylinder).


I would think you would have to have at least 2 legal cylinders. The other piston on the same crank journal theoretically would have to have the same stroke and weight....

The stroke is the same throughout, just one cylinder is sleeved small enough to be legal.  That piston has to be made as heavy as the pistons in the bigger cylinders so that the balance comes out right.
 
YetAnotherDW said:
dirttrackrocker said:
garyt said:
Shamrock, I don't know about your story but I do know that a Late Model at Spencer Speedway was caught with an engine like that (only one legal cylinder).


I would think you would have to have at least 2 legal cylinders. The other piston on the same crank journal theoretically would have to have the same stroke and weight....

The stroke is the same throughout, just one cylinder is sleeved small enough to be legal.  That piston has to be made as heavy as the pistons in the bigger cylinders so that the balance comes out right.

or the explanation..... Thats why I don't build engines...:)

Thanks f
 

raceannouncer

Moderator
My favorite form of creativity happens when a competitor wins a race with a part on the car which is legal but in no way shape or form has anything to do with performance...for instance, if someone wins with lug nuts painted a contrasting color...Once the trophy is in hand and the money is handed out. The very next week, I guarantee you at least one other driver will show up at the very next race with the same thing...LOL!!!
 

no74falcon

Champion
The rules read: "Stock appearing control arms" A clever friend took a stock a-frame, trimmed it a little, then tack welded it to an aftermarket control arm, making it "stock appearing".
 
no74falcon said:
The rules read: "Stock appearing control arms" A clever friend took a stock a-frame, trimmed it a little, then tack welded it to an aftermarket control arm, making it "stock appearing".

The Pro Stocks at Selinsgrove did this for years. Last year, they finally made aftermarket legal...
 
i was told a story about a prominent modified driver that wrecked his car in practice so for points another team loans them a car the car was usually a mid pack car they changed some stuff the driver took it out and started coming through the field. the drivers crew chief was told by the car owner he might not want to win this we got the wrong gears in it. they went over to the other car took out the gears put them in the corner of the pan with oil in it. needless to say he won the race they pulled the gears which just happened to be to hot to handle and got dropped but when they finally got em out they had the right gears in hand.
 

leadfoot4

Champion
Shamrock 3x said:
I recently received a communique from a friend, suggesting I post something on RaceNY.  All the talk about Chad Knaus' recent "troubles" got me thinking that with all the knowledge in this here forum, RaceNYers must have some pretty interesting tales to tell. So boys (and girls) have at it and give up your stories, either verified or rumored, of folks who stretched the rules and got away (or not) with it.  Here's a couple to start:

1) I was talking with Lee Osborne a few years ago and he told me how back in the 60s cars were sometimes checked for min. weight before the race, but not after.  He was at Lancaster one time and was a little under the minimum.  So to make weight, they filled the LR tire with water.  Then while sitting on the grid, waiting to go out, he had Mike Loescher, who was crewing for Oz at the time, loosen the valve stem to slowly let the air out of the LR.  Once the tire was flat & officials were notified, they let Mike & crew remove the flat & replace it before the race with one that was full of air....but NOT water.  He didn't remember how he did in the race, but said the funniest thing was watching lil' Mike trying to roll the tire back to the pits with all that water sloshing around inside.

OK....let the lies fly!


This reminds me of a story I heard from a former modified driver who will remain unnamed, to protect the guilty...

At one time, in an effort to enforce the gear rules that were in place, it was also required to run rear tires of a minimum circumference, so you couldn't run some tiny tires and get around the gear rule that way. One night, the feature winner knew he wasn't really legal, as his right rear tire barely was big enough to meet the circumference measurement, and the left rear was 3" smaller, in order to give him the stagger he needed. Of course, he won that night.

After the "victory ceremony" on the front straight of the track, in front of the crowd, he then had to go to the pits, for a "tech check". Somebody looked at the RR tire, and saw it was close, so they wanted to check the LR, however a crew member "accidentally" sat on the LR tire, with a screw driver in his back pocket, which "accidentally" punctured the tire, so it couldn't be measured....


 

Shamrock 3x

Veteran
Hmmm...this isn't generating as many responses as I'd hoped.  Could it be that some folks are holding back??  Come on...there's gotta be more stories out there!
 

Gregonet31

Veteran
My brother in law told me the modified he worked on in the 80s, which was a frequent winner, would always set up under-weight and carry just enough fuel for the feature.

He'd intentionally "stall out" and have to be towed back to the pits after the race, at which point they would refuel (and obviously fill the tank) and then the tech would get him on the scales, thus JUST BARELY making weight.

But, thats not as creative as some of these other ones.
 

crankyhick

Veteran
I can't speak for anyone else who ever did "tech work" at a race track, but, for myself I want to keep those "interesting & creative" finds to myself. If you've never done the job, well, let's just say "Everyone" likes to play..with the rules...Some are just better at it than others..
 

herm

Veteran
Back in 1983 I was layed off from my job and did not race that year.I was an official in the pits at Fulton that year as a safety inspector.One night after the completion of the modified feature, but before the other classes had completed their events I saw Dynamite Donnie Croft walking in the pits with a can of Coke.I ask to see it and found the Coke had been dumped out and refild with beer.We both laughed and he wondered how I knew,but it wasnt hard.
 
Shamrock 3x - I've been keeping up with this thread because I find it interesting myself. But I don't think you'll get an overwhelming number of responses because people are still doing a lot of them today and see this thread as a confessional. :)
 

Shamrock 3x

Veteran
H.F. Bob,
I agree with you, regarding the present day "participants", but surely there's enough old pharts like me on here that can remember some things from "back in the day".  That's more of what I was looking for anyway.

Here's one I sorta-think I remember hearing....there was a Modified team from New England (Mario Fiore, maybe??) that found an interesting way to increase (as in, more than was allowed) left side weight.  They loaded the left side rub rail with lead shot and then attached a string or wire to the cork (or whatever it was that plugged the fill hole). When the race was over the driver simply pulled the string on the cool down lap and all the lead shot rolled out. Fact or fiction?  I can't say, but I do remember one of Fiore's cars getting caught at Oswego with lead in the left side rail one time.  I remember thinking it odd that the officials even thought to check such a thing, but maybe they'd the rumors too.
 

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